Who Watches the Watchers - Forum for the Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe & Similar Works ? (2024)

Historical text from CxPulp:
Andy E. Nystrom
11-10-2013, 11:09 AM

So the new site is a bit of a memory guzzler compared to the old one so I'll need to move the historical threads down one and split the Master List in half unfortunately.

Andy E. Nystrom
11-10-2013, 11:10 AM

PS I realize the number/letter hyperlinks above aren't working now. Will work on fixing that after more posts are added

mal32
11-12-2013, 12:26 PM

About "Fandral the Dashing" there is ThorA as appearence but we should add "app" to it (Today I posted this in another place but only now I saw "The ALL-NEW OHOTMU Master List" come back)

Andy E. Nystrom
11-12-2013, 07:26 PM

Thank you Mal. I've started working on additions to the Master List and hope to have them up tomorrow (Friday at the very latest). I'll correct that in the process. On a related note (and this also applies to the Sightings thread), unfortunately I've confirmed that jumping to a letter doesn't work in CX Pulp (that is, you can no longer click on the letter L and jump to the start of the entries beginning with the letter L). So anyone wanting to jump to a particularly place on the list will have to do a Find. I plan to start adding more alter egos and hopefully that will make it easier still to jump to a particular spot by doing a keyword search.

Andy E. Nystrom
11-15-2013, 02:10 AM

Letting people know I'm still going to try to get things caught up here and on Sightings tomoirrow but may not be able to: my main computer has crashed and had to be taken to the shop and there's something wrong with my backup computer as well (I'm actually posting this from Safe Mode), plus I'm having trouble accessing my external hard drive where I keep all my notes for this site. In short, if I can update everything tomorrow, I will. If not, I'll do so next chance I get once my main computer is working properly again.

Andy E. Nystrom
11-15-2013, 09:08 PM

Added in a bunch of material Zuckyd1 and Mal32 mentioned, mostly in the Sightings thread. Will add a lot of that to the Sightings thread itself later.

Also updated the intro with the correct link to the old Master List, and removed the jump to number/letter feature that no longer works.

Finally, started the process of adding in more alter egos.

Andy E. Nystrom
11-18-2013, 04:19 PM

Added a few alter egos. In the process I found a few duplicate entries and merged them: Destructor/Doomsday Man, Don Fortunato/Vincente Fortunato, Genesis/Tyler Dayspring, and, as noted by David, Captain America (Earth-X)/Steve Rogers-Archangel.

Andy E. Nystrom
11-19-2013, 11:50 AM

More alter egos added with more corrections. Resources that I've used so far are hardcover 1-6 and Spider-Man Encyclopedia. I even found a character in the latter whom I had previously overlooked.

mal32
12-17-2013, 12:49 PM

1) may I ask you wich character you left out, please?

2) may I apolozige to you also in public, Andy? (I beg for Andy's pardon because I disappeared... sorry...)

Andy E. Nystrom
12-17-2013, 04:27 PM

Not a problem. I believe it was Darter in the Appendix (Eric to my knowledge put in everyone in the main body prior to my taking over the list).

zuckyd1
12-22-2013, 11:05 AM
Shanna the She-Devil (Shanna) CoC #2, Orig #9 2/3, Del #11 2, Wom05 1, Hardc #10 head, Hardc #10 2, HeroH 1/3 as StSD; ME5MK 1/3, Wom7D 2 as Shanna

ME5MK is out of chronological order.

Andy E. Nystrom
12-22-2013, 04:12 PM

Okay, so that listing's okay then. But thx anyway for checking. There probably are quite a number that are a bit off and when those are pointed out, I will correct them!

mal32
12-25-2013, 10:52 AM

May I wish you all happy holidays?

P.S. Andy why in:
Human Torch (Jonathan Lowell Spencer Storm/Blaze)
there is also Blaze?

Andy E. Nystrom
12-25-2013, 01:20 PM

Human Torch briefly adopted the identity Blaze to teach the other people using that name a lesson. The various Blazes, the Torch included are covered in the Fantastic Four Encyclopedia.

Andy E. Nystrom
12-25-2013, 08:55 PM
Added in alter egos from the the first two classic Handbooks. Also amended how AIM, Asgard, and Attilan were listed as in the original series.

mal32
12-26-2013, 06:38 PM

I am sorry but I looked at the FF Encyclopedia and I was not able to find this... because I am very curious about this thing (the Fantastic Four made me love the Marvel Universe) may I disturb you asking where I can find it, please?
Andy E. Nystrom
Human Torch briefly adopted the identity Blaze to teach the other people using that name a lesson. The various Blazes, the Torch included are covered in the Fantastic Four Encyclopedia.

Eduardo M.:
12-26-2013, 07:58 PM

The Torch as Blaze was covered in the Spider-Man encyclopedia under the entry for Blaze.

mal32
12-27-2013, 08:39 AM

Sometimes (often) I am very stupid... now I see it everywhere... Andy wrote it also under the Human Torch description... yesterday my eyes were out of order... sorry... and thank you all for your replies

Andy E. Nystrom
12-28-2013, 03:13 AM

Funny thing: I thought I goofed and mentioned the wrong book, but Blaze is actually in both. Only in the FF book Blaze is in the appendix, so the Spidey entry's the better one.

Andy E. Nystrom
12-31-2013, 08:43 PM

Added in alter egos from original Handbooks 3-4; a few erroneous alter egos noted in quotation marks. Do you know who Carson Coolier Jr, Eugene Paul Colorito, and Edward Marlowe were believed to be the real names of?

Eduardo M.
01-01-2014, 02:39 AM

Correct, Eduardo. The Deluxe Edition speculated that pre-existing character Carson Collier Jr (not Coolier) might have been the Scourge
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix2/enfo ... htm#Carson

Eugene Colorito is Eugene Patilio, a.k.a. Frog-Man. He's been given the wrong surname in a few comics, hence the confusion
http://www.marvunapp.com/Appendix/frogm2.htm (scan down to the comments)

Edward Marlowe is one of Dr. Faustus' aliases.

Andy E. Nystrom
01-01-2014, 10:48 AM

Right on Faustus and Froggy. And I did make a typo on Collier's name, plus Collier Jr. was previously mentioned as a Scourge alias. However, Scourge hadn't appeared at the time of the first Handbooks (nor would he have made #3 or 4 even had he been). So there was another time that "Carson Collier Jr." was used in error, in fact the Handbook definitely stated this character was Collier. Collier Jr. just can't get a break.

Andy E. Nystrom
01-01-2014, 12:01 PM

Added in alter egos from original series #5-6. Added in one other alter ego in quotes from an earlier issue that was later changed, plus two more from #5-6.

So do you know who "Carson Collier Jr." (error in original Handbooks), "Frank Schlichting" (probable changed premise), "Jack Smith" (probable changed premise) and "Merton Meke" (probable error) were?

Eduardo M.
01-01-2014, 12:59 PM

Enforcer - Carson Collier, Jr.
Goldbug - Jack Smith
Isbisa - Merton Meke

Andy E. Nystrom
01-02-2014, 11:25 AM

Yes to all three! So the Scourge answer was close as he claimed to have killed the Enforcer out of family shame.

mal32
01-02-2014, 04:46 PM

Hello, I am always so sorry because I would like to be more active and present...
however I would like to tell 2 little things:

1) about:
Planes of Pohldark Del #11 App
I have controlled Doctor Strange vol2 #65 (June, 1984) and the right word is Pohldahk, Marvel wrote it in a wrong way in the Deluxe Edition.
I think we could write it this way:
Planes of Pohldahk (mispelled Planes of Pohldark) Del #11 App
so people can find it both ways

2) about the Atlantean Kormok, in the list he is listed this way:
Kormox Del #1 head
it should be:
Kormok Orig #1 head, Del #1 head

P.S. have everybody a beautiful 2014!

Andy E. Nystrom
01-02-2014, 06:14 PM

Thx. I made those corrections. Also, I'm alternating between adding in alter egos from the hardcovers and the originals and have now added v7-9 of the hardcovers. In the process I corrected misfiling of at least three sets of characters (Midnight/Wilde and Midnight Sun, Protector/Marsh and Protector/Rul, Red Queen/Grey-9575 and Red Queen/Pryor). I also did at least one merger (Elixir and Josh Foley). As I go through these I'll also be attempting to unravel the mess caused by the revelation that Jacob Fury was never Scorpio (whimper).

Rayeye wrote:
01-03-2014, 07:51 PM

I was wondering if someone could tell me who the interior artist was for the Gamer's Handbook of the Marvel Universe 1990 volume 6? The handbook had some new art (like Alchemy and Malice), but the artist was never named, like in the other Gamer's Handbook issues (in those issues Jeff Butler, Mark Bagley or Mark Heike were credited). Only the cover artist was credited (Jeff Butler) and the "Marvel Bullpen" was credited for interior art. I'd really like to know if which artist was responsible for volume 6.

Also in the All-New OHOTMU A-Z hardcover vol. 11 the picture of Slayback's profile wasn't credited. I found out on the internet the picture was taken from the backboard of the Slayback action figure from Toy Biz (1994), but no reference of the artist. Does anybody know who the artist is?

mal32
01-08-2014, 11:44 AM

A few quick things:

1) about Marrina, from Alpha Flight, in the first original O.H.oftheM.U. series and in the Deluxe Edition, Marvel made a mistake in the Alpha Flight profile:
in the Original #1 they called her Marina, in the Deluxe #1 Marinna,
you, Andy, noted the first mistake but not the second one, so we should write it this way, if you agree:

Marrina Orig #1 head (misspelled Marina); Orig #7 1, Del #1 head (mispelled Marinna), Del #8 3, Mas #19 2, AvLog, ME2X 1/3, Av04 head, Hardc #1 head, AvAs 2, AZsc #1 head

2) Tiamut Deadpool Team-Up v2 tpb ½ R
should be:
Tiamat Deadpool Team-Up v2 tpb ½ R

3) about X-Factor (X-Terminators)
also they were updated in the "Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe - Deluxe Edition Trade Paperbacks" #8, Marvel changed the image of Angel in the one when he was Death, before Archangel, and they updated the history taking off a few original images, so we should have this:

X-Factor (X-Terminators) Del #15 2, Dtpb #8 2, Cer 1, Team 1, ME4S App, Hardc #13 1

4) about Crusader (Marvel Boy imposter)
I think we could write it this way:
Crusader (Marvel Boy imposter) Del #18 3, Mas #7 2, ME6FF 2/3 [above entries include informations that actually refers also to Marvel Boy (Robert Grayson)]; FF50 ½
adding also the Deluxe informations to the ones alread written

Andy E. Nystrom
01-08-2014, 12:01 PM

Thank you for the suggestions,
I haven't tackled the alter egos for the Deluxe Edition yet, which is why I hadn't spotted the Marina/Marrina there yet, but will fix that accordingly, as well as #2 and 3.

In the case of Crusader, however, the encyclopedia entry actually uses both names in the heading, which is why that bit looks a bit odd.

zuckyd1
01-23-2014, 12:18 AM

two typos in the Key:
ML6090: Marvel Legacy: the 1960s-1970s Handbook (only new or expanded Where are They Now sections noted)
PXav: Professor Xavier and the X-Mem

mal32
01-23-2014, 02:54 AM

The Master Edition appearences of both Mirages [Mirage (Desmond Charne) and Moonstar (Danielle Moonstar/Psyche/Mirage)] are inverted, they should be this way:

Mirage (Desmond Charne) .... Mas #6 2....

Moonstar (Danielle Moonstar/Psyche/Mirage) ... Mas #25 2...

and Danielle surname, Moonstar is mispelled "Moonsteer"

zuckyd1
01-23-2014, 09:31 PM
FearF: Fear Itself: The Fearless hc
XLAft: X-Men Legacy: Aftermath hc
XLCol: X-Men Legacy: Collision hc

The entries appear in the tpbs as well.

EDIT: This should be corrected on the Sightings thread as well.

zuckyd1
01-23-2014, 09:48 PM

PMIF is issue #69, not #42.
Also the individual friends and ladies probably qualify as sub-entries.

zuckyd1
01-23-2014, 09:51 PM

Isn't the Rampaging Hulk issue #4, not #7?

zuckyd1
01-23-2014, 11:07 PM
SIInf: Secret Invasion: Infiltration

This is a tpb.
SLordHC: Star-Lord: The Hollow Crown tpb

This is not a tpb but an oversized "floppy" issue. (Needs to be corrected in the Sightings thread as well.)
ThrUn: Thor Unplugged

I think you meant "ThrSp: Thor Spotlight"
UnivX: Universe X

Should be "Universe X Special Edition"

XFor: X-Force (1991 series)

In the individual character entries you have it listed as "Xfac" instead.
Genext

The "n" should be capitalized. Also, the Colossus who is profiled here is the one from that reality (which may be the same as Earth-41001). Change this in Sightings thread as well.
SpMSg: Spider-Man Saga

You may want to specify that this is the issue from 2010, not the series from 1991. (Applies to sightings thread as well.)

Andy E. Nystrom
01-25-2014, 06:11 PM

I've done most of David and Angelo's suggested fixes to this thread. Thank you! One of the suggestions is just for the Sightings thread and will be corrected there. I have both volumes to date of Essential Power Man and iron First so before adding in sub-entries to #67 I'll hunt down my copy and see how it looks firsthand.

Andy E. Nystrom
01-30-2014, 07:40 PM

Just realized I had forgotten to mention adding in alter egos from original #7-8 a while back. about to add some more in.

Andy E. Nystrom
02-01-2014, 02:54 PM

Added in alter egos and Earth designations using info from hardcovers #10-11. Saving the list on this site is getting slower and slower (on my computer at home, 11 font Calibri it's 307 pages) so I might have to eventually split the list again into three sections instead of two. If the Handbooks do start up again (and that CBR article suggested an online version might be happening - see this thread http://www.cxpulp.com/showthread.php...ndbooks-Coming) I may have to start a new thread to allow for greater splitting.

Andy E. Nystrom
02-01-2014, 03:45 PM

Originals #9-10 added. I merged Radion with his alter ego (and with the earlier two hardcovers merged Supreme Power with its Earth designation) and tried to untangle the Scorpio/Jacob Fury mess caused by the revelation that Fury was never Scorpio. Let me know if you think I have that correct.

Andy E. Nystrom
02-09-2014, 09:03 PM

Added in the new Star-Lord book. Also alter egos from hardcover #12 plus #13 up to X-Treme (I decided to continue from Xavier Institute later since there's a number in there). A few more Earth numbers also added, plus various other corrections. Fans of the second Tumbler (and deep down, aren't we all fans of the second Tumbler?) will be glad to know he finally gets his due on the Master List)

Andy E. Nystrom
02-11-2014, 07:04 PM

Alter egos added to characters from Hardcover #13 (from Xavier Institute) and 14

Andy E. Nystrom
02-16-2014, 11:24 AM

Alter egos from older Handbooks original #11 to Deluxe #7 added. Memory issues with the List are getting worse again so I may unfortunately at some point have to shift the historical text and split the list into four sections instead of two.

Andy E. Nystrom
02-16-2014, 07:22 PM

Added alter egos for the rest of the Deluxe listings, plus reality designations for Squadron Supreme members not already noted as such.

zuckyd1
03-19-2014, 06:53 PM

Shouldn't "FF04" be "FF05"?

zuckyd1
03-19-2014, 08:29 PM

"The Clinic — Personnel and Patients" entry in D.P.7 #19 is broken up neatly into subentries, so those might be worth listing as well.
(all 1/10 page)
Phillip Nolan Voigt ("Overshadow")
Dexter Charne ("Reinforcer")
Craig LaGraves
Tracy Speck ("Receptor")
Ms. Tanis Newhouse
Dr. Jane Semple
Harlan Hackbarth ("Regulator")
Orvile Upham
Juris Ziegler
Leland Sharp ("Shrapnel")
Geraldine Rumlow ("Vice Versa")
Edward Zentner ("Bloodhound")
Arthur Benway ("Freefall")
Rodney Weigand ("Tangler")
Sally Gallagher ("Shock")
Deborah Brownlea ("Dementia")
Lenore Fenzl ("Twilight")
Curtis Smith ("Staglamite")
Martin Murken ("Wormhole")
George Mullaney ("Mutator")
Pamela Leighton ("Interface")
Stephanie Harrington ("Glitter")
Dennis "Scuzz" Cuzinski ("Scorcher")
Charlotte Beck ("Friction")
Randy O'Brien ("Antibody")
David Landers ("Mastadon")
Jeffrey Walters ("Blur")
Terry Wilke ("Thrust")
Merriam Sorensen ("Sponge")
Dwight Frye ("Bazooka")
Evan Huebner ("Ghost-Driver")
John Rost ("Scrap Iron")
Jim Walkins ("Squirm")
Dionne McQuaid ("Indigo")
Annie Stevenson ("Quiver")
Ross Wexler ("Chill")
Lionel Berry ("Blindspot")
Heather Hanneman ("Raindrop")
Joel Larson ("Mothball")
Michael Crawley ("Dynamite")

zuckyd1
03-19-2014, 08:54 PM

another typo:
AgeA: Official Handbook of the Marvel Universe - AgeA of Apocalypse 2005

zuckyd1
03-20-2014, 12:05 PM

RRac½: Rocket Raccoon: Tales from the Half- World tpb
This is a regular comic (issue #1 in the indicia). Also, no "the".

zuckyd1
03-20-2014, 04:04 PM

FearF: Fear Itself: The Fearless hc
The entries are also in the tpb. This should be fixed on the Sightings thread as well.

zuckyd1
03-20-2014, 06:16 PM

CM1st: Captain Marvel: First Flight tpb
The title is actually Captain Marvel: In Pursuit of Flight.

zuckyd1
03-21-2014, 09:36 AM

"Avengers Mansion (New Avengers Mansion) Orig #1 2, Del #1 3, Av04 1½ as Avengers Manion; Aven #350 21 as New Avengers Mansion"
The entry in Avengers #350 is, sadly, only 2 pages.

zuckyd1
03-21-2014, 10:00 AM

"MutX" is missing from the Key.

"Albion (Peter Hunter) KPned #14 1, ANew #1 1, Hardc #1 1, Hardc #6 body, AZsc #1 caps"
should be "KPend"

"Task: Taskmaster#1"
This is the second volume, from 2010.

zuckyd1
04-25-2014, 10:23 AM
Asgard: The Nine Worlds (Nine Realms/Yggdrasil Unplugged: A Guide to the Nine Worlds) Del #1 1 sub, ThorA 3/3 sub as Asgard: The Nine Worlds; ThrGT as Nine Realms; ThrSp 3 as Yggdrasil…

I'm guessing that should be "1/3".

zuckyd1
06-01-2014, 12:13 PM

In the Key, "Stor: Siege: Storming Asgard: Heroes & Villains" — should be "SStor".

Andy E. Nystrom
06-05-2014, 09:25 AM

Thank you for the most recent corrections and additions in the recent threads. Will update when I get a chance.

I should probably explain while I haven't been around for a while: there was a fire in my building that while bad in the room it started from was not unusual for my apartment complex; entirely the fault of the occupant. But this time asbestos was found, extreme reactions occurred and around 100 people throughout that wing including myself suddenly found themselves kicked out off their suites. So my energies have been focussed on survival, finding a new place, packing etc; I haven't even had much time to focus on a previously booked two-week trip that begins next week. I move into my new place in July and will have more time and energy to deal with less critical more fun stuff after that.

So the lists will be revised and expanded, just not as soon as I had planned. Sorry to go of topic, just wanted to let people know why I haven't be able to tackle list duties in the last little bit.

mal32
06-05-2014, 12:34 PM

Thank you for sharing your problems with us. You was not forced to do it because we do this only for fun, but your efforts are always appreciated. I wish you good luck with your new home.

Kordalia 07-28-2014, 10:18 PM

Missing entry for the Enforcers : Mas #33 2

mal32
08-05-2014, 04:02 PM

About:
Gremlin (Kondrati Topolov)
I think we should add he is known also as "Titanium Man"

Andy E. Nystrom
08-05-2014, 05:40 PM

Just about to finally update these. On this particular point however, except in a small number of cases grandfathered in from Eric's days in charge of this list, we only list aliases where a character has had an entry under that name; it's not intended to be a comprehensive list. That's why Henry Pym's Ant-Man alias only appeared on the list when I started adding headshots even though he spent a lot of time as Ant-Man. Should even a capsule entry/headshot of Gremlin as Titanium Man appear, I would update the list accordingly.

Andy E. Nystrom
08-05-2014, 07:07 PM

Completed all the corrections aside from anything noted in the Sightings and Posters thread which I'll get too later. Also shuffled things around a bit to make the list three posts instead of two; CX Pulp can't handle larger posts the way Comixfan could, sadly. In fact even to edit this specific post there was a noticeable time delay. Eventually I might have to start a new Master List and split the list into 10 posts, but let's see how long CX Pulp can handle things the way they are.

mal32
08-07-2014, 04:04 AM

I understand, Andy, but I see that in the Deluxe Edition #12 Kondrati Topolov is listed, under the Soviet Super-Soldiers profile, both as Gremlin and as Titanium Man in two separated headshots, so I think we could add the Titanium Man reference.

mal32
08-17-2014, 05:45 AM

post deleted (I did not find how to really delete it, sorry)

mal32
08-17-2014, 05:52 AM

The "New Men" profile and headshots talk, also, about the "Animen" and the "Knights of Wundagore"; both these two last entries had separeted profiles in past books, too. I think we could have: "New Men/Animen/Knights of Wundagore"

and: "2099 A.D. (Marvel KnightséEarth-2992)" has the "é" instead of the "/"

Blue_Shield
09-13-2014, 01:26 PM

This list is great.

zuckyd1
09-14-2014, 11:45 AM

Masque (Morlock) ... Hardc #14 1
This is actually Masque the bio-duplicate.
(Also, I'm not sure if this entry originated in the HC or appeared in earlier form somewhere else.)

Eduardo M.
09-14-2014, 01:51 PM

I think its new. It spun-off of Madame Masque's profile

mal32
10-07-2014, 01:01 PM

Dear Andy, may I ask you if you had time to read what I wrote at the post #68? (I ask it not because I want to annoy you, but only because I am curious to see what you will decide)

Andy E. Nystrom
10-09-2014, 10:25 AM
mal32 wrote:
Dear Andy, may I ask you if you had time to read what I wrote at the post #68? (I ask it not because I want to annoy you, but only because I am curious to see what you will decide)

I'm just way behind between the unexpected move, helping with a festival, a nicer than expected summer, etc. I'll catch up on a lot of stuff within the week.

mal32
10-09-2014, 01:03 PM

no problems, of course

Andy E. Nystrom
10-11-2014, 09:00 PM

You voted to lose it, so it's gone! Anything too much like a poster or pin-up or otherwise too far removed form Handbook/Files formats have been removed and moved over to the Poster etc thread. Where applicable, dead abbreviations and cross-references resulting from the move have also been deleted. Just in case I've backed up the old version, but I'm hoping not to put anything back in as it's hours of work to keep moving things back and forth.

Tomorrow I'll tackle the newer additions.

Andy E. Nystrom
10-12-2014, 03:54 PM

I've corrected the Titanium Man, 2099, and Masque errors. The Knights of Wundagore are New Men soldiers and not the New Men race as a whole so i left that as is. I've added a clarifier to the Animen entry to indicate that they are a group of five New Men and not the whole race.

zuckyd1
10-16-2014, 07:18 PM

THOR ANNUAL #10 has a "pre-handbook" entry in a similar vein as those in Jungle Action #6 and 8: a 2-page Map of Asgard (virtually the same as the one that appeared later in the original handbook series) along with a one-page "Gazetteer of Asgard and Environs". I would ordinarily suggest placing these three issues in the pin-ups thread, but, since the maps reappeared virtually unchanged in the handbooks, I'm not sure.
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronoco ... Asgard.jpg
http://www.supermegamonkey.net/chronoco ... etteer.jpg

zuckyd1
10-18-2014, 04:33 PM

In the Key, I assume "YngAv XStor" should just be "YngAv".

Andy E. Nystrom
12-20-2014, 09:09 PM

I'm working on adding in the Avengers stuff and am almost done but wanted to toss out an idea and see what people think: the Master List is bursting at the seams and frankly saving the list each time characters etc are added is getting slower and slower (minutes to turn on the editor and minutes more to save). At the same time I know people don't like abbreviations that aren't in the key. So here's what I propose: for characters that have had entries under multiple names, I keep the "as ..." but in the parenthesis only leave in the real name/best descriptor.

Example:
Iron Man (Anthony Edward “Tony” Stark/Cobalt Man) CoC #1, Orig #1 head, Del #1 head, Del #6 4, U89 #4 3, Mas #15 2, AvLog, ME1 4, Av04 2, Av04 head, SWar ½, ML60 1, CivF 1, ML80 2, CWBat ½, MAvMW 8, WGam head, ANIr 11, Hardc #1 head, Hardc #5 head, Hardc #5 11, Hardc #6 head, Iron3 1, HeroH 1/3, SStor 1, ARCal 1 upd, AZsc #4 bodyg, AZsc #5 3/8, AvNow App as Iron Man; ANIr head, Hardc #11 head as Tony Stark; Hardc #12 head as Cobalt Man

Change to:
Iron Man (Anthony Edward Stark) CoC #1, Orig #1 head, Del #1 head, Del #6 4, U89 #4 3, Mas #15 2, AvLog, ME1 4, Av04 2, Av04 head, SWar ½, ML60 1, CivF 1, ML80 2, CWBat ½, MAvMW 8, WGam head, ANIr 11, Hardc #1 head, Hardc #5 head, Hardc #5 11, Hardc #6 head, Iron3 1, HeroH 1/3, SStor 1, ARCal 1 upd, AZsc #4 bodyg, AZsc #5 3/8, AvNow App as Iron Man; ANIr head, Hardc #11 head as Tony Stark; Hardc #12 head as Cobalt Man

Not ideal, I realize, but it will keep the list manageable a bit longer. What do people think?

Andy E. Nystrom
12-20-2014, 10:23 PM

Haven't taken care of older suggestions yet, but the Avengers Now! material is now added.

Migrating some stuff to the Posters thread did appear to speed up the editor a little but aside from the previous post, I'm open to other suggestions for keeping this list manageable. After all, we WANT more new Handbooks to keep expanding this list.

Andy E. Nystrom
12-26-2014, 01:26 AM

If anyone objects to the proposed format change in post #81 above, please say so by the end of the year. Otherwise in January I'll make the change.

mal32
12-27-2014, 06:22 AM

It's not so much an aesthetic thing for me as recognizing that the list is a bit of a memory guzzler. The only other option I can think of is to close this thread and start a new one that is broken up into 10 sections instead of the current three. But I'm open to other suggestions for making the list better able to handle future additions. Comixfan was able to handle a single mammoth size post but not this site, so we need to work with the hand that's been dealt.

mal32
12-30-2014, 06:19 AM

I understand it is not an eastheti thing and I want only you do this magnificent thing without much stress so for me it is ok everything you will decide, Andy.

Two other things:
1) about Red Wolf:
there is this:
Red Wolf (William Talltrees) CoC #2, Orig #9 head, Orig #9 1, Del #10 1, U89 #6 2, Mas #21 2, AvLog, ANew #9 3, CWBat App, Hardc #5 head, Hardc #9 2
Red Wolf (Johnny Wakeley) MWes 1, Hardc #9 1

but in the Original #9 and the Deluxe #10 profile is for both Wakeley and Talltress so, I think, it is better to write it this way:
Red Wolf (William Talltrees) CoC #2; Orig #9 head; Orig #9 1, Del #10 1 w/Wakeley; U89 #6 2, Mas #21 2, AvLog, ANew #9 3, CWBat App, Hardc #5 head, Hardc #9 2
Red Wolf (Johnny Wakeley) Orig #9 1, Del #10 1 w/Talltress; MWes 1; Hardc #9 1
do you agree?

2) I wish a happy 2015 to EVERYBODY!!!!

mal32
01-05-2015, 12:35 PM

Like the Red Wolf above also the Eel has the same problem, now there is this:
Eel (Edward Lavell) Orig #4, Del #4 1, Mas #2 2, ME5MK 1/3 w/Stryke; Del #7 head, ME4S App, Hardc #7 head, Hardc #12 head, MUUp 5 head
Eel (Leopold Stryke) Orig #4 App, Del #4 1, Mas #2 2, ME5MK 1/3 with Lavell; Del #7 head, Del #17 1, WolEn #1, ME4S App, ME6FF, MUUp 5 head, DefSH 2

but also in the Deluxe #4 Stryke and Lavel shared the entry so it should be this way:
Eel (Edward Lavell) Orig #4, Del #4 1 w/Stryke, Mas #2 2, ME5MK 1/3 w/Stryke; Del #7 head, ME4S App, Hardc #7 head, Hardc #12 head, MUUp 5 head
Eel (Leopold Stryke) Orig #4 App, Del #4 1 with Lavell, Mas #2 2, ME5MK 1/3 with Lavell; Del #7 head, Del #17 1, WolEn #1, ME4S App, ME6FF, MUUp 5 head, DefSH 2

mal32
01-05-2015, 01:10 PM

I don't want to annoy anyone but also Mister Fear has the same problem, not it is this:
Mister Fear (Lawrence Cranston) Mas #25 2, ME5MK 1 w/Drago, Machinesmith, fa*gan; Hardc #7 2
Mister Fear (Zoltan Drago) Mas #25 2, ME5MK 1 w/Machinesmith, Cranston, fa*gan; Hardc #8 ½
Mister Fear (Starr Saxon) see Machinesmith

but in the Original #7 and the Deluxe #8 the Entry of Mister Fear is not only for fa*gan but also for the other three so I think it should be this way:

Mister Fear (Lawrence Cranston) Orig #7 ¾, Del #8 1, Mas #25 2, ME5MK 1 w/Drago, Machinesmith, fa*gan; Hardc #7 2
Mister Fear (Zoltan Drago) Orig #7 ¾, Del #8 1, Mas #25 2, ME5MK 1 w/Machinesmith, Cranston, fa*gan; Hardc #8 ½
Mister Fear (Starr Saxon) Orig #7 ¾, Del #8 1 w/Drago/Cranston/fa*gan, see also Machinesmith

mal32
01-05-2015, 02:14 PM

Also
Foolkiller (Ross G. Everbest) Orig #5 App, Mas #27 2 w/Salinger, Orig #13 2/3, Del #17 1, Hardc #4 ½
Foolkiller (Greg Salinger) Orig #5 App, Mas #27 2 w/Everbest; Del #4 1, ME4S 1/3, ME5MK App, DefSH 2

should be, for me:
Foolkiller (Ross G. Everbest) Orig #5 App, Mas #27 2 w/Salinger, Orig #13 2/3, Del #4 1 w/Salinger, Del #17 1, Hardc #4 ½
Foolkiller (Greg Salinger) Orig #5 App, Mas #27 2 w/Everbest; Del #4 1 w/Everbest, ME4S 1/3, ME5MK App, DefSH 2

because before to give a full entry to Everbest in the Deluxe #17 Marvel shared the entry to Everbest and Salinger in Deluxe #4

mal32
01-05-2015, 04:24 PM

Black Talon (Samuel David Barone) Orig #2 App, Del #2 1, Mas #10 2 w/Drew, MysAr 2, Hardc #1 2 w/Drew & Boudreaux; AvLog, Hardc #6 head, HeroV 1/3, AZsc #1 1/6
Black Talon (Desmond Drew) Orig #2 App, Mas #10 w/Barone; MysAr 2, Hardc #1 2 w/Barone & Boudreaux

should be:
Black Talon (Samuel David Barone) Orig #2 App, Del #2 1/Drew, Mas #10 2 w/Drew, MysAr 2, Hardc #1 2 w/Drew & Boudreaux; AvLog, Hardc #6 head, HeroV 1/3, AZsc #1 1/6
Black Talon (Desmond Drew) Orig #2 App, Del #2 1/Barone, Mas #10 w/Barone; MysAr 2, Hardc #1 2 w/Barone & Boudreaux

because the entry in Deluxe #2 is both for Drew and Barone (unnamed at the time the entry was written)

mal32
01-05-2015, 04:47 PM

Crimson Dynamo (Dimitri Bukharin) CoC #1, Orig #3 1, Orig #10 head, Del #3 2, Del #12 head, ME6FF App as CD; Mas #5 2 w/Vanko, Turgenov, Nevsky, Petrovich, Shatalov as CD; Hardc #13 head as DB
Crimson Dynamo (Alex Nevsky/Yuri Petrovich/Valentin Shatalov) Mas #5 2 w/Vanko, Turgenov, Bukharin
Crimson Dynamo (Boris Turgenov) ML60 1+WNow, ML6090+WNow w/Vanko; Mas #5 2 w/Vanko, Petrovich, Bukharin, Shatalov
Crimson Dynamo (Anton Vanko) ML60 1+WNow, ML6090+WNow w/Turgenov as CD; Mas #5 2 w/Turgenov, Petrovich, Bukharin, Shatalov as CD; ANIr head, Hardc #11 head as AV

should be:
Crimson Dynamo (Dmitri Bukharin) [misspelled Dimitri Bukharin] CoC #1; Orig #10 head; Orig #3 1, Del #3 2 w/Vanko/Turgenov/Nevsky/Petrovich; Del #12 head; ME6FF App as CD; Mas #5 2 w/Vanko, Turgenov, Nevsky, Petrovich, Shatalov as CD; Hardc #13 head as DB
Crimson Dynamo (Alex Nevsky/Yuri Petrovich) Orig #3 1, Del #3 2 w/Vanko/Turgenov/Bukharin, Mas #5 2 w/Vanko, Turgenov, Bukharin
Crimson Dynamo (Valentin Shatalov) Mas #5 2 w/Vanko, Turgenov, Bukharin
Crimson Dynamo (Boris Turgenov) Orig #3 1, Del #3 2 w/Vanko/Nevsky/Petrovich/Bukharin; ML60 1+WNow, ML6090+WNow w/Vanko; Mas #5 2 w/Vanko, Petrovich, Bukharin, Shatalov
Crimson Dynamo (Anton Vanko) Orig #3 1, Del #3 2 w/Turgenov/Nevsky/Petrovich/Bukharin; ML60 1+WNow, ML6090+WNow w/Turgenov as CD; Mas #5 2 w/Turgenov, Petrovich, Bukharin, Shatalov as CD; ANIr head, Hardc #11 head as AV

because in Original #3 and the Deluxe #3 the entry is for all the five Crimson Dynamo: Vanko, Turgenov, Nevsky, Petrovich and Bukharin
and Dmitri Bukharin was misspelled Dimitri Bukharin (maybe Dimitri it is the American name of Dmitri)

mal32
01-05-2015, 04:58 PM

Phantom Rider (Carter Slade) Del #19 2, AvLog, ME5MK App; MWes 2 w/Jacobs and Lincoln
Phantom Rider (Hamilton Slade/Night Rider/Ghost Rider) CoC #2, Orig #8 1, Orig #9 head as NR; Del #5 2 as GR; Mas #22 2, AvLog, ANew #8 3, Hardc #5 head, Hardc #8 3, CWBat App as PR
Phantom Rider (Lincoln Slade) MWes 2 w/Jacobs & Carter; AvLog

should be, I think:
Phantom Rider (Carter Slade/Night Rider/Ghost Rider) Orig #8 1 as Night Rider, Del #5 2 as Ghost Rider w/Lincoln/Hamilton, Del #19 2, AvLog, ME5MK App; MWes 2 w/Jacobs and Lincoln
Phantom Rider (Hamilton Slade/Night Rider/Ghost Rider) CoC #2, Orig #8 1, Orig #9 head as NR; Del #5 2 as GR w/Carter/Lincoln; Mas #22 2, AvLog, ANew #8 3, Hardc #5 head, Hardc #8 3, CWBat App as PR
Phantom Rider (Lincoln Slade/Night Rider/Ghost Rider) Orig #8 1 as Night Rider, Del #5 2 as Ghost Rider w/Carter/Hamilton, MWes 2 w/Jacobs & Carter; AvLog

because in the Original # 8 and the Deluxe #5 the entry is for the three Slades: Carter, Lincoln and Hamilton

mal32
01-05-2015, 05:14 PM

Guardsman (Kevin O'Brien) Mas #15 w/Michael as Guardsman; ANIr head, Hardc #11 head as KOB; Iron3 1 as Guardsman
O'Brien, Michael (Guardsman) CoC #1, Orig #4 1, Del #5 3, Del #10 head, Iron3 head as Guardsman; Mas #15 2 w/Kevin as Guardsman; Aven #300 head, ANIr 1, Hardc #1 head, Hardc #8 1 as MOB

should be, for me:
Guardsman (Kevin O'Brien) Orig #4 1, Del #5 3, Mas #15 w/Michael; ANIr head, Hardc #11 head as KOB; Iron3 1 as Guardsman
O'Brien, Michael (Guardsman) CoC #1; Orig #4 1, Del #5 3, Mas #15 2 w/Kevin; Del #10 head, Iron3 head as Guardsman; Aven #300 head, ANIr 1, Hardc #1 head, Hardc #8 1 as MOB

because the Original #4 and the Deluxe #5 entries are for both the O'Brien brothers: Kevin and Michael

mal32
01-05-2015, 05:24 PM

Air-Walker Automaton Orig #4 head, Del #4 head
Gabriel the Air-Walker (Gabriel Lan/Air-Walker) Orig #4 head, Orig #13 1, Del #4 head, Del #16 2, Mas #9 2 as Air-Walker; ME6FF ½, ASSur #1 1, ANovC 1, Hardc #4 2, AZsc #4 caps as Gabriel the Air-Wallker

for me should be:
Air-Walker Automaton Orig #4 head, Del #4 head, Del #16 2 w/Gabriel the Air-Walker
Gabriel the Air-Walker (Gabriel Lan/Air-Walker) Orig #4 head, Orig #13 1, Del #4 head, Del #16 2 w/Air-Walker Automaton, Mas #9 2 as Air-Walker; ME6FF ½, ASSur #1 1, ANovC 1, Hardc #4 2, AZsc #4 caps as Gabriel the Air-Wallker

because the Deluxe #16 profile is for both the Real Gabriel Lan and the Automaton one

mal32
01-05-2015, 05:41 PM

in:
Hate-Monger (Josh Glenn possed by Hitler clone) AZsc #5 body
possed should be possessed

mal32
01-06-2015, 01:02 PM

about:
Wildboys U89 #8 1, ME5MK 1/3
is it possible to add the two names of them?
Wildboys (Jet & Spit) U89 #8 1, ME5MK 1/3

mal32
01-06-2015, 02:28 PM

about Nomad we have:
Nomad (Edward Ferbel) Hardc #8 ½
Nomad (Jack Munroe/Bucky) Orig #2 App as Bucky; Orig #8 1, Del #9 2, Del Tpb #9 5, Mas #6 2, WolEn #2, ME4S App, ME5MK App, GAge 1, Hardc #8 3, Hardc #10 head as Nomad

because in the Original # 8 and the Deluxe #9 the profile is for three Nomads, I think we could have this:
Nomad (Edward Ferbel) Orig #8 1, Del #9 2 w/Rogers/Munroe, Hardc #8 ½
Nomad (Jack Munroe/Bucky) Orig #2 App as Bucky; Orig #8 1, Del #9 2 w/Rogers/Ferbel, Del Tpb #9 5, Mas #6 2, WolEn #2, ME4S App, ME5MK App, GAge 1, Hardc #8 3, Hardc #10 head as Nomad

so I think we could add to Captain America (Rogers) this:
Captain America (Steven Rogers/Nomad) Orig #8 1, Del #9 2 w/Ferbel/Munroe as Nomad

mal32
01-06-2015, 02:32 PM

about Ringmaster we have:
Ringmaster (Maynard Tiboldt) RHlk4 1, Orig #9 1, Del #11 3, Mas #13 2, AvLog, ME5MK App, Hardc #2 body
Ringmaster of Death (Fritz Tiboldt) Hardc #2 head

because in the Original #9 and the Deluxe #13 the profile is for both father and son, I think we could have this:
Ringmaster (Maynard Tiboldt) Orig #9 1, Del #11 3 w/Fritz; Mas #13 2; AvLog; ME5MK App; RHlk4 1; Hardc #2 body
Ringmaster of Death (Fritz Tiboldt) Orig #9 1, Del #11 3 w/Tiboldt, Hardc #2 head

mal32
01-06-2015, 03:08 PM

Lava Men Del #7 1, Mas #16 2, AvLog, ME4S App, ME6FF App, AvAs 2, HeroV 1/3
Moloids ME6FF App
Subterraneans Orig #11 1, Del #12 2, AvLogTyrannoids ME6FF App

because the Subterraneans profile in the Original # 11, in the Deluxe #12 and in the Avengers Log is always for all the four races: Gortokians, Lava Men, Moloids and Tyrannoids, I think we could have this:
Gortokians Del #12 2, AvLog w/ Lava Men/Moloids/Tyrannoids
Lava Men Del #7 1, Mas #16 2, AvLog, ME4S App, ME6FF App, AvAs 2, HeroV 1/3; Orig #11 1, Del #12 2, AvLog w/ Gortokians/Moloids/Tyrannoids,
Moloids ME6FF App; Orig #11 1, Del #12 2, AvLog w/ Gortokians/Lava Men/Tyrannoids
Subterraneans (Gortokians, Lava Men, Moloids and Tyrannoids) Orig #11 1, Del #12 2, AvLog
Tyrannoids ME6FF App; Orig #11 1, Del #12 2, AvLog w/ Gortokians/Lava Men/Moloids

Andy E. Nystrom
01-07-2015, 07:24 PM

Thank you for all those suggestions, Angelo. I'll pull out my Essential copies over the weekend and go through them.

A general rule I go by though: unless a character is subsequently revealed to be two characters (e.g. Marvel Girl/Phoenix Force or Marvel Boy/Crusader), I let the Vital Statistics section (Real Name, Occupation et al) be my guide. If the Vital Statistics section only gives stats for one character or only references other versions under First Appearance, I treat the entry as only being for that version of the character, albeit with supplementary info on other versions. I do however count other versions if they appear under Real Name, Occupation, etc. So when I look at the above, that will be the deciding factor in terms of splitting an entry on the Master List.

mal32
01-08-2015, 02:03 AM

I agree with you, Andy, I controlled and I believe that every suggestion I made is about profiles talking of every version in the History sections, not only in the First Appearance sections.

P.S. I will edit a few of the above suggestions of mine, so, please, in the weekend take the final edited version of them, thanks

Andy E. Nystrom
01-08-2015, 06:00 PM

Okay I won't touch them before Saturday to ensure you have time to do any edits you wish to do.

mal32
01-09-2015, 08:04 PM

In the Valkyrie's profile in the Original #12 and Deluxe #14 the entry talks abou her three versions (Enchantress, Parrington and Brunnhilde), so I think instead of:

Valkyrie (Brunnhilde) Orig #2 App, Hardc #14 caps, XEarM head as Brunnhilde; CoC #2, Orig #3 head, Orig #12 1, Del #14 3, U89 #2 head, EncM ½, Hardc #3 head, Hardc #12 3, HeroH 1/3, Wom7D 3, ARCal head x2, AZsc #1 head, AvNow App as Valkyrie
Valkyrie (Samantha Parrington) Wom05 1, Hardc #3 head, Hardc #12 2, Wom7D 2 as Valkyrie; XEarM head as Parrington

we could have:
Valkyrie (Brunnhilde) Orig #2 App; Hardc #14 caps; XEarM head as Brunnhilde; CoC #2; Orig #3 head; Orig #12 1, Del #14 3 w/Enchantress/Parrington, U89 #2 head, EncM ½, Hardc #3 head, Hardc #12 3, HeroH 1/3, Wom7D 3, ARCal head x2, AZsc #1 head, AvNow App as Valkyrie
Valkyrie (Samantha Parrington) Orig #12 1, Del #14 3 w/Enchantress/Brunnhilde; Wom05 1; Hardc #3 head; Hardc #12 2; Wom7D 2 as Valkyrie; XEarM head as Parrington

and to Enchantress (Amora)
I would add:
Orig #12 1, Del #14 3 w/Enchantress/Brunnhilde as Valkyrie

mal32
01-09-2015, 08:11 PM

We have:
Vulture (Raniero Drago) ME4S 1/3, ML60 ½+WNow, Hardc #13 ½
Vulture (Clifton Shallot) ME4S App, BiBlk ½, Hardc #13 ½
Vulture (Adrian Toomes) Orig #12 1, Del #14 2, Mas #5 2, SpMJac 1, SpMUnm 1, ME1 1, ME4S 2, SpM04 2, Hardc #10 head, Hardc #13 3

but in the Original # 12 and in the Deluxe # 14 the profile talks about the three above so maybe we could have this:
Vulture (Raniero Drago) Orig #12 1, Del #14 2 w/Toomes/Shallot; ME4S 1/3, ML60 ½+WNow, Hardc #13 ½
Vulture (Clifton Shallot) Orig #12 1, Del #14 2 w/Toomes/Drago; ME4S App; BiBlk ½; Hardc #13 ½
Vulture (Adrian Toomes) Orig #12 1, Del #14 2 w/Drago/Shallot; Mas #5 2; SpMJac 1; SpMUnm 1; ME1 1; ME4S 2; SpM04 2; Hardc #10 head; Hardc #13 3

mal32
01-09-2015, 08:17 PM

About the two Iron Men, the Original #5 in the History talks more about Stark then Rhodes, so we could add this:
Iron Man (Anthony Edward “Tony” Stark/Cobalt Man) Orig #5 1 w/Rhodes
Iron Patriot (James Rupert Rhodes/Iron Man/War Machine) Orig #5 1 w/Stark

mal32
01-09-2015, 09:13 PM

About:
Scarlet Scarab (Mehemet Faoul) CoC #3, Orig #9 1

the profile on the Original #9 talks about both versions by father and son: Abdul and Mehemet Faoul, so I think it woulb be better:
Scarlet Scarab (Abdul Faoul) Orig #9 1 w/Mehemet
Scarlet Scarab (Mehemet Faoul) CoC #3; Orig #9 1 w/Abdul

mal32
01-09-2015, 09:20 PM

About Union Jack, we have:
Union Jack (Joseph Chapman) CoC #2, Orig #11 1, Mas #32 2, ANew #12 2, Hardc #6 body, Hardc #12 3, HeroH 1/3, MUUp #3 head
Union Jack (Brian Falsworth/Destroyer) Orig #3 App as Destroyer; Orig #13 head, GAge 1, ANew #12 head, Hardc #12 2, Hardc #12 head as Union Jack; Del #20 3, Mas #30 2 w/Montgomery as Union Jack;
Union Jack (James Montgomery Falsworth) CoC #3, Del #20 3, Mas #30 2 w/Brian; Orig #13 head, BDead 1, Hardc #12 2

but the Original #11's profile is for all the three above, so maybe it is better:
Union Jack (Joseph Chapman) CoC #2; Orig #11 1 w/both Falsworths; Mas #32 2; ANew #12 2; Hardc #6 body; Hardc #12 3; HeroH 1/3; MUUp #3 head
Union Jack (Brian Falsworth/Destroyer) Orig #3 App as Destroyer; Orig #13 head, GAge 1, ANew #12 head, Hardc #12 2, Hardc #12 head as Union Jack; Del #20 3, Mas #30 2 w/Montgomery as Union Jack; Orig #11 1 w/Montgomery/Chapman as UJ
Union Jack (James Montgomery Falsworth) CoC #3; Del #20 3, Mas #30 2 w/Brian; Orig #13 head; BDead 1; Hardc #12 2; Orig #11 1 w/Brian/Chapman

mal32
01-09-2015, 09:28 PM

Last correction of the things I wrote above:
Also the Red Wolf's profile on the Update #6, like the Original #9 and the Deluxe #10, is for both Wakeley and Talltress, so it is better, for me, to have this:

Red Wolf (William Talltrees) CoC #2; Orig #9 head; Orig #9 1, Del #10 1, U89 #6 2 w/Wakeley; Mas #21 2, AvLog, ANew #9 3, CWBat App, Hardc #5 head, Hardc #9 2
Red Wolf (Johnny Wakeley) Orig #9 1, Del #10 1, U89 #6 2 w/Talltress; MWes 1; Hardc #9 1

mal32
01-11-2015, 11:23 AM

Last 2 things, for now:

1) about SHIELD (Supreme Headquarters International Espionage Law-Enforcement Division/Strategic Hazard Intervention Espionage Logistics Directorate) Orig #10 1, Del #11 3, U89 #7 1, ML60 1, CivF 1, ANew #10 5, CWBat ½, Hardc #10 5; ME4S App as SHIELD Agents

maybe it is better to add this to the Update '89 notation:
U89 #7 1 as SHIELD II

2) about:
Saturnyne (Opal Luna Saturnyne/Earth-9) U89 #6 1, Mas #15 2, ANew #9 1, Hardc #10 2 as Saturnyne; ME6FF App as OLS
Sat-Yr9 (Opal Lun Sat-Yr-Nin/Earth-794) ANew #9 1, Hardc #10 1
Ross, Courtney Hardc #5 bodyg

the Update '89 profile named Saturnyne talks about all of the tree above, is it not better to have this?
Saturnyne (Opal Luna Saturnyne/Earth-9) U89 #6 1 w/Courney Ross/Sat-Yr9, Mas #15 2, ANew #9 1, Hardc #10 2 as Saturnyne; ME6FF App as OLS
Sat-Yr9 (Opal Lun Sat-Yr-Nin/Earth-794) U89 #6 1 w/Saturnyne/Sat-Yr9, ANew #9 1, Hardc #10 1
Ross, Courtney U89 #6 1 w/Saturnyne/Sat-Yr9, Hardc #5 bodyg

Andy E. Nystrom
01-11-2015, 02:42 PM

Looking at Angelo’s suggestions (as noted before, to count as a separate entry, stats for another incarnation have to appear in the “Vital Statistics” section other than First Appearance, even if other versions are discussed in the History):

Red Wolf, Mister Fear, Foolkiller, Black Talon, Ghost Rider (Slade), Guardsman, Air-Walker, Nomad, Ringmaster, Valkyrie, Vulture, Iron Man, Scarlet Scarab, Union Jack, Saturnyne:
All are examples of the First Appearance/History exemption (I do realize how problematic the Iron Man case is but we have to draw the line somewhere).
Verdict: Leave as is.

Eel:
There appears here to be confusion between comma and semi-colon. All listings before the first semi-colon are shared entries, so the shared entries in Deluxe #4 are already factored in.
Verdict: Leave as is.

Crimson Dynamo:
There are two issues here, the shared entries aspect and the spelling of Bukharin’s first name. The first is another example of the First Appearance/History exemption. In the second case, as far as I can tell, his first name really is Dimitri, even though that’s wrong from a real world perspective. One possible explanation: maybe some celebrity/pop culture character in Russia-616 had an altered spelling to seem cool, and Dimitri’s parents were fans and decided to use that spelling. Regardless of why though, it’s Dimitri. As with Sunspot, we’re stuck with a weird looking real name until and when it’s retconned.
Verdict: Leave as is.

Hate-Monger
This is definitely an error
Verdict: Fixed. Change will appear when I do the next upload.

Wildboys
Hmm, I don’t always list members for groups but since there are only two, why not?
Verdict: Added. Change will appear when I do the next upload.

Subterraneans
This entry is largely a broad overview and is not easily divided into individual types of Subterraneans. I see this as analogous to Europe and individual countries having separate entries.
Verdict: Leave as is.

SHIELD
This one’s a bit tricky because subsequently the SHIELD II history is generally folded into SHIELD. Having said that this entry is clearly just the post-Nick Fury vs SHIELD team
Verdict: I’ll fine tune the SHIELD listing to note this. Change will appear when I do the next upload.

I'll announce here when the upload happens. Other editing in progress.

mal32
01-13-2015, 04:51 PM

Dear Andy, I am sorry if you lost your time because of me to control everything but I really was sure my suggestions could be useful... I hope you can forgive me...
however I accept, respect and understand your decisions.

May I only try to ask you to think about two of my suggestions, please?

1) about the Subterraneans, I really think it would be better to to count the four races as separate entries because the profiles don't have “Vital Statistics” sections, they have only the First Appearances where they are separated, like in the Hate-Monger's profile where you counted the "Adolf Hitler clone" and "H.M. Unger/Psycho-Man construct" as separated.
And in the Subterranens Deluxe profile the four races are well divided in the history and the Moloids and the Tyrannoids have two good illustrations, too.

2) about Red Wolf, in the list we have now Red Wolf (William Talltrees) listed in two profiles (Deluxe #10 and Update '89 #6) and nothing for Red Wolf (Johnny Wakeley) but in the Updated he is called "Red Wolf II", why? I am sure Marvel wanted to make clear that in the Update '89 they wanted to talk more about Talltress and that the profile on Deluxe #10 was more for both of them, if not why call him "Red Wolf II" if the first profile was for Talltress too?

I insist not because I want to annoy but only because I really think that Johnny Wakeley, the Moloids, the Tyrannoids, the Lava Men and the Gortokians deserve it, thank you for your patience

(sorry for my English but I am Italian, remember it, please...)

Andy E. Nystrom
01-14-2015, 12:37 PM

Hi Angelo First off, no problem about making some suggestions. I'd rather check somethihng out and determine that it didn't need changing than to have some errors remain because people were afraid to point them out. Second off, I have no idea why meta-tags are showing up.

1 a. I neglected to mention before but probably should have, but when looking at the Subterrraneans entry I did skim through the initial paragraphs and it appearedd to be talking about Subterreans as a whole. From that I determined that it was the author's intent that this was a broad look at the Subterreans, albeit with some paragraphs going into detail on specific races once the broad strokes were out of the way.

1 b. The Hate-Monger entry that you mention is in the Deluxe Book of the Dead. You are correct in notingn that there are no Vital Statistics other than First Appearance. That having been said, the entry is titled Hate-Monger I, III and as per the conventions of that series of Handbooks depicts the deaths of the Hitler and Unger versions (II being the still-alive Man-Beast). I think it's pretty clear that the author's intent was that this was a shared Hitler/Unger entry.

2. What I believe happened here was the original and Deluxe Handbooks used the roman numerals fairly infrequently, mostly just the Appendices and Books of the Dead except in cases where it was unavoidable such as Deluxe's Iron Man I and II, where both versions were activer at the same time. However, with Update '89 Roman numerals started to appear a biot more often, perhaps because Mark Gruenwald was taking a lesser role and others wanted to use the Roman numerals more often, perhaps because of the perceived greater need for them as multiple versions of characters started to appear more often either due to succesors of characters who had entries in the past (Blizzard) or earlier versions of characters returning (Human Torch). So Talltrees was Red Wolf in Original and Deluxe, but Red Wolf II in Update '89 and how that Roman numerals are mostly abandoned these days, is now Red Wolf (Talltrees). Again, looking at Vital Statistics, the author's intent is clear that it was a Talltrees entry. Agreedn that Wakeley could have been fleshed out more into his own entry, but it was a different time and Gruenwald other than in the Books of the Dead seemed pretty focussed on characters active in the present day. Happily the Handcovers gave all the Red Wolf incarnations their due at last.

mal32
01-14-2015, 12:55 PM

No I meant that that the initial paragraphs seemed to be taking a look at the Subterraneans as a whole. I see this as a clear case of the author trying to provide a broad general history of the Subterraneans and not a history of the races separately. So, sorry, I don't see anything that could be split off here without going against the original author's intent. Had the entry provided the Deluxe Edition style quarter pagers with stats (see for example Circus of Crime, Squadron Supreme, or, more directly analogous, Savage Land Races from the Book of the Dead) it would be a different matter. But from an objective point of view it's an entry on the Subterraneans as a whole.

Subjectively, however I agree that they need more individual coverage. The Moloids and Tyrannoids have only been covered in the Fantastic Four encyclopedia and the Gortokians have never been covered at all. The Lava Men are the teacher's pet.